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Right in Two [Part II: Thank your god] May 16, 2006

Posted by benj in Philosophy & Religion.
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The sound was deafening.

I swear I didn’t see it coming. I’ve always looked on both sides before crossing this very intersection. I’ve done it a million times, but as I am about to know in a few moments, it only really takes one mistake to have it all crashing down. It was blunt force that overcame me.

It happened so fast.

Damn, he definitely beat a red light. The green “WALK” sign was the last thing I remember seeing before a careening bus hit me. I was flung an immeasurable distance. All of a sudden, an excruciating pain blanketed my already debilitated body. My vision was obscured by the glare of the sun that seeped through the spray of blood that sprang forth from my busted forehead.

What the bus didn’t finish, the pavement sure ended.

The next thing I remember, I was being carried off by a group of men in white.

I opened my eyes. I’m sure the bus left me badly banged up, but for some reason, I hardly felt any pain. I was actually feeling well. I scanned my arms and legs to check for cuts and bruises, but I saw none.

None in the sense that I didnt see my arms and legs.

But despite this, there was a general feeling of euphoria. I was free from pain.

Then it hit me.

After years of believing that there was no such thing as an afterlife, I was literally experiencing how life after death. I found myself philosophizing the concept many times over. At least my brain – I doubt that I still had one— or at least whatever I was using for my pseudo-cerebral musings was still being faithful to my essence as an individual when I was still living.

After finally getting over my change in appearance (if you could call it that) and my shift in mode of existence, I buried myself in an ocean full of thoughts again.

These are the same thoughts that disturbed me from the very beginning… even as a little boy.

Who or what was it that annointed my being to come into existence in the context of the earth?

If it were all a creation of a higher being, why did there have to be a higher being? What created everything – including the possibility of existence, the universe and actuality?
If you dismiss the idea of a god, then you are one brave individual. It is full of uncertainty. Never mind evolution. The argument stems much farther than that. Without god in the equation the concept of intelligent design will be totally thrown out the window.

Dont even mind the Big Bang Theory.

What came before it? Why was there one to begin with? Why did existence have to be defined on the postulates we hold now – and not like in a universe governed by the punctuation mark at the end of this sentence?

I’ve had the burden of having a very inquisitive and critical mind at a very early age. I was thinking about these thing since I was eight years old. It was tough. I lost sleep. I could tell anyone because people who were ten times older than me wouldn’t even understand concept that I was talking about.

As I was just starting to wallow in the futility of my thoughts, I saw him. He didn’t introduce himself, but I knew in my gut who he was. I had a feeling that he was the christian god.

Those blasted christians were right all along, I figured.

He broke the silence by asking “Why didn’t you heed christianity’s call? Wasn’t the message of the truth loud enough for you?”

I didn’t heed the call of christianity simply because the brain you gave me didn’t allow me to believe in something so ridiculous. The church never gave anyone an impetus to believe. Damnation is not an impetus – it’s a threat. Believing on the basis of fear is tantamount to extortion and blackmail.

I used the brain you gave me to weigh the options and view the objective facts of the matter. The religion in itself has zero credibility. Despite holding on to a supposedly sacred text, it still didn’t become a unanimous organization of christians. This was because they resorted to many departures from the bible. Even if people hold the gospel as a book of truths, the fact that it was written years after the events have supposedly transpired raises a lot of red flags. The stories in the bible are no different from the great epics of the classical world. The similarities are absolutely staggering. The bible is but a work of fiction fro my view and you did a lousy way of emphasizing impetus on belief and erasing doubt from people’s minds.

You are a sick sadist. You chose to give people the freedom to choose religions by not making the impetus on people to believe clear enough. You didn’t even give some people a chance to be exposed to your supposed word of salvation. You were nothing but a psychotic tyrant who sought to dominate his created universe and toy with the lives of the individuals you created. You do not deserve to be god. Most people would’ve done a better job than you.

I have no respect for people like you – nor for people who support you despite the unfair treatment you’ve given mankind. Who are you to allow sickness, famine and sufferring to occur and persist? Who are you to judge people? Why did you even give them the chance to commit mistakes if you knew from the very beginning that they would’ve made the same sins?

You are a sadist.

I despise you.

FUCK YOU, I said as I spit at his face.

Even before I could even see if he dodged in time, I was engulfed in an inferno of brimstone and molten rock. I was banished to hell for being smart, critical and unignorant – the qualities he himself gave me. My non-belief in a god was not something I made up. It was him who hard-wired me into non-belief. He born out the possibility into existence.

I’d rather end up in hell that be party to this big injustice.

Wake up, christians.


Disclaimer:

The reasons why i entitled this piece as Thank Your God are stated below
Thank your god that:
a) he has given you christians the ability to believe
b) he will consider it as one of the reasons for your salvation
c) one person like me is already out of the running – more slots for you.

I wanted this to be salient point of the article, but unfortunately, I still have a long way to go in improving my writing skills to be able to suggest something as unobvious as this. Come on, it was a nice idea! hehe 🙂

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Comments»

1. ollie - May 17, 2006

i take it that the bus incident is fiction right? wahehehehe. wow! you sure are blunt. you have a gift for writing pare. although i dont really share in that whole “DISSING GOD thing”, i do understand what youre trying to say. i just wish i was as forward as you last sunday. you see that pastor that i was talking about opened his big mouth again. he talked down on Mormons (my gf’s dad WAS a mormon) & then he then proceeded to talk down on Jehovah’s Witnesses. ok my mom is one. it pissed us off. but i stayed quiet. which i regret. i should have said something. ok, were DEFINETLY not getting baptized as born-again xtians. man, i need to put this guy in place. although i respect him as an elder, wat he did was just plain ludicrous. next sunday im gna start wearing all black with a shirt that sez: 666 or an upside-down cross or sumthing. im gonna rile things up in that place. damn, i should have SAID SOMETHING!

2. r - May 17, 2006

“You are a sadist.

I despise you”

nothing says it better than that. 🙂

3. kevin - May 18, 2006

Wow. I thought it was true, but then it’s not. Great writing, dude.

Ehem. For me, being an atheist isn’t an issue at all, tao ka pa rin naman. And I can’t blame you for that. There are so many instances wherein I doubt about Christianity; the Bible itself. I don’t know which is true, and which could be taken literally and figuratively.

Anyway, it’s for me to find out about it.

Your words are collegiate, eh? Kailangan ko dictionary! Yun lang dude, daan lang.

4. lateralus - May 18, 2006

ollie: thanks for visting the site again. yeah bigotry sucks, but the way that a god (assuming he exists) has abandonned man into suffering and willingly submitting man intro the possibility of damnation is just plain wrong. and yeah, the bus incident was fictional – well, the entire thing is. Im just playing in my mind how I’ll behave should there be a judgment after I die. It’s not really a choice on my part to believe eh. I just can’t. My brain can’t take that train of thought. It feels like I’m kidding myself. Thanks again. 🙂

kevin: come on, di naman ganun ka-realistic. hehe. malapit ka naring maging collegiate. galing mo sa entrance exams. hehe. thanks sa pag daan.

5. Rob - May 18, 2006

Mas gusto mo sa hell?

Wala naman perfect religion right?

6. Coach Pop - May 18, 2006

Whatever floats your boat.. Haha!

7. lateralus - May 18, 2006

Rob: It is not an issue of religion. There’s this notion that christian god is a merciful savior. But clearly, after taking a quick look in the world todya, it’s clear that he doesn’t uphold mercy that much. If there is a god, he’s either a) an idiot or b) a really sadistic tyrant out to unleash suffering on everyone he created – just because he feels like it.

Yes, if there is a god, I’d rather spend my eternity in hell than be on the “good side” of the tyrant. ive seen no reason to believe he exists and for him to blame me for not believing in him is downright wrong. that’s simply unfair – dont forget about the millions (heck, billions!) who don’t have the cererbral wiring to believe in him. those people are immediately disenfranchised from salvation.

it’s not a shallow religion issue. as you can see, it’s a god issue. your god is not perfect.


something tells me you missed the focus of the piece because of your personal bias in favor of the church and your concept of what this supposedly existent god is supposed to be like. im not taking against you though. sometimes, it’s really hard to inculcate foreign concepts for the first time.

8. Rob - May 18, 2006

sa pagkakalam ko, hindi Diyos ang nagpapahirap o nagpaparusa sa atin. Kundi si Satanas na hinayaan ng Diyos na i”test” ang ating pananampalataya…

pati ang anti-God na kuro-kuro ay maaring gawa ng demonyo. Ito ang gusto nya ang humina ang pananalig ng mga tao sa Diyos.

At bakit mo naman nasabing tyrant ang ating Panginoon? dahil ba sa dami ng mga namamatay sa giyera? dahil ba hindi maraming nagugutom? kung gagawing isang paraiso ang mundo… wala nang dahilan pa para magdasal at sumandal sa Kanya.

oo nga eh! nagulat ako pataas ng pataas yung rank ko… ehehehe… marami na ba akong tagasubaybay??? 😛

9. sandy - May 18, 2006

hehehehehhehe this is one of the very few blog entries that I’ve read from start to finish. wow grabe pare you’re so smart and lucky and everything and maybe your writing will inspire me to ressuscitate (whatever) my long dead blog and maybe i’ll be cool and smart too and that would be cool huh

well i told you i liked reading novels (good stuff like j.k. rowlings work wow!!) and the intro of this post did it for me (or you because I read it)

and and and that ollie guy, with the um priest saying those things? if I were there i’d have thrown him my left shoe. and the right one when he recovers

10. benj - May 18, 2006

Rob: why did your god let Satan happen? That’s just wrong. he wants to watch us suffer. why is there a need tfor a test? If he truly loves man, he should’ve made man unable to sin to begin with. If the realm of possibility was just not opened for sin and suffering, all that has gone wrong in world wouldnt have happened.

anti-god stuff = made by the demons. that’s the most irritating point that a christian can make. i can also say that pro-god comments are made by people who refuse to think for themselves and just thump opponents with bibles. It’s a no brainer. black propaganda. Everything against the church is demonic – excellent. Here’s were the despicable elitism of the church comes. I want to see the day when everyone in the church dies. It will be a much better world after that. If the church can be elitist, I can also be elitist. They’re mandate is as imaginary as their god.

the christian god is a tyrant (again, assuming he exists – because i dont believe he does, im just baffled that people continue to think he does – even more he is still being perceived as a god of mercy) because he has subjected man to all sorts of suffering. existence wasn’t a choice. think about it.

if belief is going to be a delineating factor between who gets saved and who doesn’t, that makes him a tyrant. not everyone is equipped to believe in a concept like a god. even if i force myself to believe, i would be able to believe it truly because the concept of his existence defies logic and evidence. This is very hard to understand for christians, for some reason.

seriously, your paradigms are way to skewed towards christiniaty to fully grasp the points raised by this post. thanks for trying though.

11. benj - May 18, 2006

sandy: that left shoe bit got me in stitches. Thanks. I’ll run the spellcheck next time. hahaha

blog ka na. im sure you’ll do great.

12. Rob - May 18, 2006

iyan mismo ang gusto ni Satanas.

13. benj - May 18, 2006

Rob: Long live satanism then. Id rather be seen by people like you as an ally of satan rather than be a stupified individual who doesn’t think. I use my brain. I’m not an idiot to ignore the tyranny.

You’re bordering on bigotry, bible thumper. Nagpauto ka masyado sa simbahan mo. Sige, kung naniniwala ka na masamang mag-isip,bagay ka nga sa simbahan mo.

this blog is for open minded people, not for bigots like you. cheeck your bigotry at the door, your christian elitism irritates me. thanks.

14. benj - May 18, 2006

REMINDER: THIS IS A BLOG THAT CATERS TO PEOPLE OF DIFFERENT BELIEFS, BACKGROUNDS AND CREEDS. PLEASE GROUND YOUR COMMENTS ON LOGIC AND FACT INSTEAD OF SIMPLY ASSERTING YOUR PHILOSOPHY’S TUNNEL-VISIONED, MYOPIC AND SUBJECTIVE VIEW ON THINGS.

IN SHORT: JUST BECAUSE THE CHURCH SAYS SO DOESN’T MEAN IT SHOULDN’T BE THAT WAY.

IT’S A REQUIREMENT TO USE ONE’S BRAIN WHILE POSTING COMMENTS.

Thank you very much. 😀

15. Rob - May 18, 2006

Benj, hindi ko inaasahan na ganyan ang iyong magiging reply. sinasabi mo na isang blog ito ng may malawak na pagiisp ngunit ikaw man ay wala noon. kung sa tingin mo ay mali ang aking paniniwala… hindi mo na kailangan akong pagsalitaan ng ganyan.

pasensya na kung hindi kasing lawak ng isip mo ang mga opinyon ko. Hindi ko lang talaga akalain na madaling maginit ang ulo mo sa mga kumokontra sa’yo.

16. benj - May 18, 2006

look, im not saying you’re wrong. what i’m saying is that you’re basing your comments on the context of your christianity – which shouldn’t be the case.

this was your statement:

anti-god discussions are the work of the devil.

that is bigotry. You are the one who is not acknowledging the fact that people could go against your god. how can that be NOT bigotry? The entire premise of this blog is to dismiss the idea of the existence of a god and you try to shut it down by a heavily-contextual diatribe on what “satan” wants? Jeez. Wow. That’s open-mindedness indeed.

that is an opinion held by church for obvious reasons. for your purposes, you’d like to think that the intrinsic value of a god is beyond reproach. i’m not expecting you to understand this, but at least ive comprehensively explain this side of the coin. for some reason this issue of impetus is not grasped well by christians – don’t worry there’s more of you out there.

Check your bigotry at the door. thanks.

17. juice - May 18, 2006

Why does this seem like such a big issue? Why don’t we just stick to our beliefs? Live life, respect people, laugh, learn, play, have fun. However we want our life to be, how we were brought up or either what our belief is whether an Atheist, Christian, Muslim, Hindu etc etc, let’s stick to it. If we are in doubt, we examine it.

Benj, don’t get me wrong ok, I’m here to express my own views but it seems that you want everyone to change to an Atheist. You are convincing everyone thus you cater to all the negative sides it has to offer. Personally I don’t think it’s wrong to follow a religion, I don’t think it should dictate my life or tell me what to do but it’s just there to guide me. If I know its negative sides, obviously anybody in the right mind would know how to fight it.

Hope you understood. And you write really great. Kudos to you.

18. benj - May 18, 2006

juice: that’s a very nice point. We examine it. That examination has been insinuated by someone as being satanist/satanic. I found it very unfair to attack it that way.

Reasoning that we shouldn’t hold anti-god discusssions because it’s exactly what satan wants is simply retarded. I will not tolerate it. he basically maligned my stance on the basis of his FUNDAMENTALISM. I hate fundamentalists and I will not take any crap from any of them.

Im sorry if i came across as someone who is trying to convince people. i just wanted to open other people’s eyes to a perspective that most people don’t see. christians have had their time under the sun to make their case – now it’s my turn to show my spin on things. :)]

thanks for dropping by.

19. juice - May 18, 2006

no problem 🙂 I’ve decided to link you, coz you write really great!
You’ll be seeing more of me in your blog. 😉

20. Rob - May 18, 2006

note that i have used the word ‘maari’.

21. benj - May 18, 2006

noted.

this was also noted.

iyan mismo ang gusto ni Satanas.

Oh lookie! I dont see the word maari [sic] on this version. this was your latest post, so i’m guessing this is your current stand.

22. aajao - May 18, 2006

hehe… i’m entertained with the comments flow. 😀

23. benj - May 18, 2006

as a proof that i embrace diversity, let’s give PEX’s resident INCer a warm welcome. 🙂

i’m also entertained.

24. mitch - May 18, 2006

wow benj! fiction dopehead ka na pala ngayon? hehe. 😀 very nice work. 😉

Mura na siguro ngayon ang utak ng mga katulad mo. Masyado kasing nagagamit eh. hehe! XD With regard to your post, when I was at one point on the verge of depression, I used to ask the same things. Particularly your stance on the whole ‘God is a sadist tyrant” thing. However, I’ve had my share of experiences to know the reasons behind all that and had my doubts cleared. But of course, I won’t have to tell and explain them just for the sake of an argument.lol These beliefs, on your part and my part as well, have always been personal anyway. So just leave them at that. 😉

Regardless if I agree or not, this piece is still worth reading. Carry on with your writing! 😉

25. benj - May 18, 2006

thanks ate mitch.

it’s a bit confusing (even for me), but the main focus of this article is to attack the concept of salvation based on a)non-belief and b)non-membership from the congregation. i’m not saying it’s being insinuated as the only things needed for salvation, what’s clear is that atheism is being considered as a sure way to be rejected.

the scenario is this: an atheist dies. god asks him why he didnt become a christian. the atheist points out why. god sends him to hell.

****
the discussion of the sadistic nature of god only happened when the character (of course, that’s not me! hahaha) found about the existence of god.

real atheists are people who are hard wired not to believe in god. it’s not the “god hasn’t been good to me, so i’ll go atheist” scenario most of the time. ive tried considering that a god exists – heck even tried being a christian. but it just felt like i was cheating myself into believing something that just seems so ridiculous to me. im predisposed to not believe – and im just keeping it real.

***

the reason why i entitled this piece as “Thank Your God” was this

Thank your god that:
a) he has given you christians the ability to believe
b) he will consider it as one of the reasons for your salvation
c) one person like me is already out of the running – more slots for you.

26. kevin - May 18, 2006

NO! don’t argue about that. i think it’s just an individual belief, and we can’t do anything about it.

nako. ayoko nang sumali. daan lang. lol

27. ollie - May 18, 2006

“how can you say those things?”
“you are going to hell!!!”
“you are the work of the DEVIL!”

hahahhaha. words like these make me question christianity more. why do they have to use scare tactics to keep people to their faith. wouldnt it be better if people stayed because they WANTED TO & not because there is a BOOGEYMAN out to get them. and why do they always seem to have this RIGHTEOUS-HOLIER-THAN-THOU attitude towards everything that is not christian. and if they are SO HOLY how come a Korean Father who goes to our church murdered his own family, then committed suicide. they were a CHRISTIAN FAMILY. i thought they were saved. im not making this up.

here is the link:
http://www.lapdonline.org/newsroom/news_view/27311

So where was their saviour when all this was happening?
cmon now.
they need to cut down on their EGOS & PRIDE. there is NO PERFECT RELIGION. you guys dont like Jehovah’s Witnesses because they are “DIFFICULT/SPIRITUALLT LOST” as so said by our pastor. but then the same pastor wants us to go talk to people about our faith? to knock on doors?? uh hello? so we are going to start doing things like the JWs?? contradicting. they think that they are so perfect but their IMPERFECTIONS are getting the better of them. they make it seem like God actually wrote the Bible and dropped it off at their doorstep. cmon its written by humans. humans who has the ability to IMAGINE/CONJURE things up. ok im just ranting.

so please, if you are a christian who is reading this blog and is offended by what the author is saying about your God, dont use scare tactics. just save us the trouble of having to read Bible Quotes or of Devils & Demons and just press that red “X” on the top right of ur IE window. Thank You.

28. ollie - May 18, 2006

oh one more thing.

i was at this Fellowship bull-crap a few weeks back. and there was this girl who was still Catholic (but is now a born-again xtian, dumb-ass she converted) who was telling her story of how she use to see St. Nino when she was young. like how she would see him when she was feeling/alone/scared and how it used to comfort her. and its funny how they all jumped in her case & told her that those apparitions/dreams were the work of the devil. and then they talk about “speaking-in-tongues/speak-of-tongues” and how that was HOLY or a GIFT from God. OKEEEYYYY!!! just because they dont believe in IDOLS they automatically presume a holy image is the work of the devil. hahahahaha. funny. but then a person being possesed by the holy spirit and start speaking in tongues is glorified. WHAT? i dont get it? haaaay, contradicting talaga tong mga to. ay ewan!

all i know is, on Sunday, if he starts talking shit again, shoes are going to fly! BWAHAHHAHAHA!!!

29. bulitas - May 19, 2006

nakita na kita. haha.
nag adj ako dati ng match nio sa iidc.
aliw.
rural ka pla.
hehe.

30. benj - May 19, 2006

Thanks for staying on topic. haha

if that was in IIDC 2004, thanks. We made the broke.

IIDC 2005, dammit, we were SCREWED!

But just the same, thanks for visiting.

ollie: easy on the shoes! hehehe

31. arvin - May 19, 2006

As usual mainit na naman ang diskusyon, isang patunay na marami talaga ang nag-iisip, and that’s really a good thing.
I’m very open to other people’s belief, and I respect them no matter what. Atheist, Satanist or Christians alike, they all have their share of experience why they chose to follow that certain religion.
Skewed as it may be, and bias in some points sometimes it’s just so hard to understand if you close your mind on what you believe and that goes for everyone.

I personally believe that a God exists (as I learned on the Church), but somewhere, somehow the church failed on establishing a strong foundation for my faith that I keep on questioning the validity of their teachings.
Questioning is a sign of intelligence and may be a measure of how concerned you are for your salvation, but no matter what flaws I/we find, I’m sure we’ll all be intelligent enough to judge what to believe and what to throw away.

I won’t pretend that I know you enough to judge you based on your writings, but as I see it you’re not totally closing your door to God but you want to because your mind still cannot grasp the idea of ‘Him’.
I too waver on my faith but I know, that in time we’ll all be enlightened, for now I’d do my own share of examining the truth.

As for now, this is a very good opportunity to discuss issues and re-examine ourselves on what we believe, and I’d like to stress that we don’t have to believe and buy all his ideas, instead let us be critical and use our minds. 😉

32. benj - May 19, 2006

^thanks arvin (sorry arvin 🙂 ). biases will always be there, what’s important is that we find a playing field where all other details can be talked about – without the most polarizing of issues (like the concept of an absolute right and wrong).

Im not totally closing the idea that there might be a god. There might be a god, but he wasn’t kind enough to allow people to see his existence in a more overt way. That in itself makes it a tad bit sinister and sadistic. Why would a god decline salvation to a person who lived in an egalitarian tribal community in Namibia based on the sole reason that he wasn’t christian? He was born into an environment that doesn’t allow him to mature as one.

It’s very unfair. And it gets irritating when elitist and delusional sects claim as if they have the exclusive arrangement with god for salvation. is that the way salvation works? you have to be in god’s uncle bob’s lucky 7 club? people like that need a strong wallop in the head.

At the end of it all, im still inclined to believe that there is no god. there is no evidence to support it. The fact that jesus christ is a true historical figure doesnt support it (as many stupid people who i have come across has pointed out). the fact that the world is beautiful and great also doesnt prove it (also a favorite argument by retards). the burden of proof is on the believers, and i rest on the side of what’s more logical.

it takes a personal connection and predilection to believe in a god. I dont have it. and i dont see anything wrong with that. im sure all of you didn’t say one day I WANT TO BELIEVE IN GOD!. Im sure it sort of came naturally to most if not all christians.

peace. 🙂

33. arvin - May 19, 2006

off topic: benj ako si arvin, nde c alvin 😦

34. cyberpunk - May 19, 2006

haha kala ko totoong nasagasaan ka ng bus… hehe, nice post anyway… hmmm, medyo similar tayo mag-isip but i don’t call myself an atheist, I believe in god (otherwise ang hirap talaga iexplain kung saan galing ang lahat kung walang god) hehe but definitely not in the christian god. Bible is just a book of fairy tales and christianity is just a rehash of older religions. yun ang resurrection na totoo. Pinatay nila ang older religions at ni-resurrect as Christianity…

hala na-carried away na ako hehe 😀

35. benj - May 19, 2006

^ ayos. masbihira yang perspective na yan.

i think pantheism yung closest sa belief na yan. si dick clarke at stephen hawking pantheists. you’re in good company. hehe.

36. pau - May 20, 2006

wow, ang daming comments! go benj! haha. 🙂

what kind of evidence are you looking for, exactly? i think that if you’re looking for “evidence” to prove that God exists, it wouldn’t exactly be the same as having faith.

kasi if you do happen to come across something that undeniably proves that God does in fact exist, then naturally, you’d believe in Him. not doing so, in the face of such strong “evidence” would make you an…well, someone who refuses to believe in something that has been proven. hehe. but like i said, i don’t think that’s faith.

personally, i didn’t believe in God either, up until maybe two years ago. i couldn’t accept the fact that there really was a God, considering all the wars and the children out on the streets and crime and poverty and all that. kasi parang ang hirap i-reconcile. but then certain things happened to make me re-think my beliefs. i don’t know, maybe it’s different for everyone. but i don’t think reason can take you all the way. at some point, there has to be faith. 🙂

p.s. and also, i don’t think salvation is denied to people who aren’t Christians. whatever it is you call your religion, as long as you live a life of Good and Truth and ultimately, Love (which I guess is what God stands for to Catholics), eh di ayos! 🙂

37. benj - May 20, 2006

pau: nice to see you here. i see where christians are coming from, it’s truly an easier way to imagine that everything is going to be ok because someone out there is watching out for everyone. i can’t surrender my objectivity just like that.

I don’t have faith. I find it personally insulting to have faith. It works for other people – good for them. I have no reason to follow their lead. I like using my brain and I will use it one every possible instance. I will not leave grey areas aside. 🙂

38. cyberpunk - May 20, 2006

makikigulo uli…i guess most people equate the non-existence of god with the hardships and misery…but, who says that God has to be loving, giving yadda yadda? He can be the creator of good and at the same the creator of evil, and being a god, he certainly has the right to NOT CARE about any of his creations, if he wants to…so, there can be a god even with all kinds of nastiness in the world…perhaps we’re not meant to know his exact nature, otherwise he would have planted that knowledge as some sort of an instinct…for sure, he’s not the vain, insecure, worship-me-or-burn-for-eternity, there-is-free-will-but-you’ll-go-to-hell-if-you-don’t-follow-my-will kind of god…

hmm, benj, pantheism? ma-research nga yan…i’m just an ex-catholic turned buddhist with severe anti-christian tendencies…

39. pau - May 21, 2006

cyberpunk — imo, an indifferent God is in itself a contradiction in terms. i don’t think a god who doesn’t care about what he has created even deserves to be called God.

i do agree with you on the point that we can’t really figure out exactly how God works though – He is God after all, and we aren’t. but despite our limitations, i think it’s healthy to question our own beliefs, as well as others’, about God. that way, at least we’ll have checked that we have good reasons for believing in the things that we do believe in. 🙂

(so many thanks to benj, who started all this and who deserves hugs and kisses and candy and ice cream from everybody for making people think. haha.)

benj — may your succeeding entries be as provocative as this one. and just because you have faith doesn’t mean you have to stop using your brain altogether. 🙂

p.s. i don’t watch PBB so i have no idea what your text from last night means. (it WAS about PBB, right? hehe.)

40. benj - May 21, 2006

cyberpunk: Malevolent/Indifferent god theory! 🙂 That’s almost as if god created everything to watch a reality tv show. It’s not exactly a comforting thought, but who knows, the god that exists could be bored after having existed for… well, forever? hehehe.

Pantheism = worship of panthers. hehe. Pantheism is very buddhist. It has a lot of I-should-be-in-one-with-the-metronome-of-the-universe sensibilities. Kinda hippie, but still ok. hehehe

pau: yeah, an atenean dared to join PBB – and the ateneans definitely showed their support. Kung di nga naman kaya manalo sa basketball, sa PBB nalang, diba? hehehe FOr the record, though I was an AVID (read: jologs) fan of the show for the first two season, last night’s episode was only the second episode I watched this season. hehe

The Indifferent/Malevolent god theory is very possible. It’s not that palatable an idea to digest, but the bias against it stems from the god archetype that almost all major religions have constructed. It’s not really a contradictions in terms, but more like a very frightening possibility that most people would like to dismiss as improbable.

http://maltheism.blogspot.com

christians portrayed their god in such a childish and pathetic level that it’s easy to bore holes in their cases. maybe it worked before – it’s definitely not working now (see: europe).

41. pau - May 21, 2006

benj — really? last night’s episode was only the second one you watched this season? hehehe okay, i believe you. anyway, there’s nothing wrong with PBB, i guess. i just don’t find it *that* entertaining. 🙂

and about this whole indifferent / malevolent God business…how can He be God if He isn’t good? shouldn’t God be God not just because He’s all-knowing and He made us and all that, but also because He’s a nice (major understatement, hehe) guy?

and in response to mr. maltheism, i believe that God is both loving and just – He doesn’t spoil you by doing everything for you while you just lie there helplessly, wallowing in your problems. as a human being, you have the ability to act based on what you believe is right (the danger is when you rely too much on an ideology and fail to think critically). use it. that potential isn’t lessened just because God exists. on the other hand, it should make you stronger. God helps you and gives you hope, but like i said, He doesn’t do *everything* for you. heck, I wouldn’t want Him to – that would undermine my humanity. it wouldn’t do anything for my growth as a person. if a higher being had solved all my problems just like that, i’d have hated Him for it.

maybe it’s just easy for me to say this. after all, what sort of life-altering problems could a person like me have gone through? i never went to war. i never went to jail. the closest i came to losing someone i loved was when…i don’t even know. i don’t think i’ve ever come close. my life has been easy, especially when i look at other people’s lives.

but then again, that’s why we’re all here – to love and to make it easier for other people, the same way they’ve made it easier for us. that is what it seems to me that God is saying. how can that sort of message come from a cruel God?

all i can say is, if i had believed that God was mean, I’d never have committed to or put my faith in Him. seeing as i do believe He’s good though, i’m pushing on. 🙂

42. benj - May 21, 2006

the all-knowing bit is highly reliant on doctrine. i think even if a god exists, it was very irresponsible on the early christians’ part to put labels on god. theyve given him so many labels that most of the time, they form contradictions. they conveniently hide behind the beyond human comprehension clause when they’re caught in a tight spot – unfair, considering that if god were truly beyong human comprehension, how did they comprehend his other characteristics? (i.e. his perfection, good heart, etc.)

god made you the way you are and he also invented the realm of possibility. He could have chosen to not have allowed evil to occur in the beginning and to persist up to the present, but he chose to do so. he could have hard-wired people to not commit sin, but he chose to roll the dice and see who goes to heaven and who goes to hell – and he tops it off with a self-righteous sacrifice that supposedly saved man from his sins. it’s all wrong, if you ask me.

43. pau - May 21, 2006

but hardwiring people to be incapable of sinning would mean taking away some part of our freedom.

as for the comprehension thing, maybe it’s similar to the difference between description and definition? people aren’t perfect (e.g. irresponsibility, clumsiness at explaining their thoughts, religious illiteracy). neither is the church. people who claim to be believers aren’t necessarily so, not where it really counts.

at the end of it all, we’re all just sinners. we all carry our wounds, however shallow or deep they may be. and we ourselves have inflicted wounds on other people. this doesn’t mean we’re a lost cause though. it’s still up to us to form – or not – our own personal response to God, which i guess is part of the heaven / hell question. i don’t know. i don’t think there’s an exact formula for salvation, as in do this and do that, and ta-da, you’re guaranteed a slot in heaven.

44. cyberpunk - May 21, 2006

well for me God doesn’t have to be just good…he’s the supreme being, creator of everything…we can’t limit him to just “being good”…kung hindi sa kanya galing yung evil, eh kanino? kahit naman yung Lucifer ng Christians (for the sake of argument), eh si God din ang gumawa…i guess the analogy is the coin — there are two sides (although god being god can have more), but it’s still the same coin…

besides, even us humans are the same…we can have kids but some may not care about their kids…we can build things then later on not give a hoot or even destroy our creation…what more if you’re God? you have absolute power, you certainly can do anything that you want…

about God “watching a reality TV show”, that’s one point I find conflicting sa christianity…on one hand, you’re supposed to have free will, on the other hand, there’s God’s will…so where’s free will in that? you can be outright evil but still enjoy good luck or be outright good and suffer, all because of god’s will…then it certainly feels like we’re just puppets acting out a scripted life…

btw, i’m not saying that God is cruel or bad…he is just omnipotent… i mean, if there is no evil, how can there be anything good? they must coexist…you need one to see the other…another silly analogy: kung lahat ng tao maganda at walang pangit sa mundo, mawawala na rin ang concept ng kagandahan, we’ll all just be “average”…

*end of rant*

45. pau - May 22, 2006

I don’t think evil came from God. I don’t think evil itself is a thing – I think it’s more of a “lack of” or a non-thing, i.e. the absence of good. So yes, I guess God did allow evil to exist (or better yet, He allowed good to not exist everywhere). Do you think maybe it’s partly because if the world was fully good, we wouldn’t really see how it would be different from heaven? In the same way, maybe we were given the freedom to choose so that we could follow God of our own volition and not because we were forced to (i.e. lack of choices). Maybe what God wants is faithful followers, not mindless ones.

Btw, I also don’t think that good needs evil for it (the former) to exist. Yes, good would be more evident, appearing in stark contrast to evil (presence vs. absence), but it doesn’t need evil for its existence. 🙂

46. pau - May 23, 2006

whee! panalo na ‘ko kasi walang sumagot for 24 hours! hahahaha!

(stupid comment ‘to, sorry! couldn’t resist. hehe.)

47. Across the Universe » The F Word - May 24, 2006

[…] These past few days I’ve been reading an atheist friend’s blog practically daily. One of his entries really disturbed me. It was painful, but I decided to go through the entire thing anyway, as I wanted to try to understand his reasons for writing it. More than anything, it jolted me. It jolted me in the sense that I realized that this world is full of people who, to put it mildly, don’t think of God the same way I do. I can hear you saying, “Well, duh.” The thing is, I guess I sort of got caught up in my own little world, believing that there was no way people could think of God that badly. Oh sure, I knew not everyone believed in Him. And yes, I knew that people could be indifferent towards the whole God question. But blatant hatred? That was too much for me. […]

48. Jaywalker_1982 - May 25, 2006

I thought christians were gonna have another “atheist turned christian” posterboy. Keep up the “faith” bro 🙂
btw If you like these kinds of discussions you may wanna visit pinoyexchange’s “the realm of thought”. Most of the people there are atheists unlike in other sites

Some interesting threads
-god no free will pg6: http://www.pinoyexchange.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215266&page=6&pp=40

-evolution and entropy: http://www.pinoyexchange.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225124

-creationism fact or fiction pg3: http://www.pinoyexchange.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215561&page=3&highlight=Jaywalker

49. benj - May 26, 2006

Hi kids. I’m back from Sagada.

Jaywalker: I am faaip_de_oiad. I know pinoyexchange. I dont want to go to most of the threads on RoT. Too many idiots – especially those from religions who claim exclusive attonement. haha

And yeah, I started the Entropy thread. haha

Pau: your concept of freedom just like everything else is a human construct. had your god made man into something else, that freedom would have manifested a totally different way – in a way that would make man put less premium on it.

Evil was created by/ allowed by god to be occur, thrive, corrupt and persist.

Existence was not done in our own volition. We didn’t ask for him to be subject to a test. We didn’t ask for him to play with our lives and watch from a distance. It wasn’t like we bargained for him to have us created. it was his call to create us – if you believe that your god truly is the creator. There is no voluntary action in that. None at all.

50. Pau - May 28, 2006

“Created by” and “allowed to exist” are two different things.

And yes, God did call us into being, and He is still calling us to participate as co-creators, to love, etc. We get to choose how to respond to that call, if we choose to respond at all.

51. Pau - May 28, 2006

Yeah, you’re “atheist friend” on my list. Hehehe. 🙂

52. benj - May 28, 2006

pau It is. the realm of possibility was constructed by the creator. Nothing that he couldn’t have fathomed could have come to existence because he set the framework on what is possible.

the call is shrouded in ambiguity – and the channels are idiots.

53. Jaywalker_1982 - May 31, 2006

ha you’re faip ..who wudda thunk. I’ll add you up

54. Rex - June 2, 2006

I’m a Catholic but I don’t think being an atheist is something for me to judge. Obviously, you’re not just a random individual who calls himself an atheist just because he’s too lazy to go to Church on Sundays. I can see that you’ve given your stand a lot of thought. For that, I respect you stand, even if I may not agree with it.

I won’t argue for my faith (not religion), because I admit I’m not as passionate the way you are about your beliefs. It’s enough for me to believe even without conrete proof that there is a being more superior than me. I hope you respect my personal beliefs, the way I respect your beliefs. We may not believe on the same things, but it’s not to say that one among us is correct and the other is wrong. It’s an opinion, walang tama o mali. I won’t call you an idiot just because you’re views are different from mine.

55. Ninelong - June 3, 2006

I must say, I am impressed. Incredulity does breed religion. 😉

56. Kawit - June 9, 2006

yeah. in fact having no religion is also a religion.. LOL.

57. benj - June 9, 2006

Kawit: it’s not really a religion – its more of a philosophy.

58. Kawit - June 10, 2006

I swear there a a million and one out there who don’t believe in God.

If we group ourselves together, We could form a religion, and could be a threat to Benedict 69th… lol…

aihihihi

59. benj - June 10, 2006

look at china, that’s over a billion already. 😉

60. Kawit - June 11, 2006

some of them are buddhist, some are Taoist, some are Maoist, some are Cunfucionist.

they have a religion.

61. benj - June 12, 2006

buddhism does not have a god figure. it’s every man for himself for the buddhists. they dont worship buddha – they just try to follow his examples to attain enlightenment.

maoist? communism is not a religion – and i doubt if they venerate mao the same way the christians venerate christ.

religion is still discouraged – that’s why we hear of a lot of stories of tortured missionaries in china.

they have religion, but confucianism and buddhism are not god-centered religions.

62. Not an atheist, no a theist, I don't need a label. - November 9, 2006

Before you attack christianity.Look at it first. It was the Rosicrusian order of christians which allows you right now to speak without getting bruned in the stake or condemmned by the state for being a satanist and what not they usually pin to atheism. (Well thanks to the reformation movement and most of the founding fathers of america where rosicrusian.

It is a fact that christianity was violent at some time but through time and its eventual disinregration into different movements.(and thanks to the Prudes) that it has now created this new good world where we could freely say what we want.(well thanks to the revolutions as well and the end of the religious wars)But what I’m saying is that in christianity’s current state its really good, and it has been tamed alot.

Without chrisianity we’d be all bowing down to Mecca right now. And you wouldn’t get away with what you are saying right now, you’d either be stoned to death or hanged. So despite the validity of your claims at least aknowledge the fact that christianity gave you this chance to think.

Also catholic doctrine right now isn’t that big on hell and damnation.
Its now focusing more on the aspect of Jesus Christ’s love. And when you look at the bible it isn’t really that condeming.Save for revealations and some other parts especially O.T but O.T has little to do with Jesus Christ.

Also one of the best things about christianity is that through the Bible it was impossible to kill other people because of faith. That is why the reformation happened. Luther criticized the catholic church because it was out of line with what Jesus was saying in the New Testament.

Unlike Islam which even puts a premium on violence towards kafirs/unbelivers/infidels. Hey they even kill and disown their children who convert to other religions.

So this long essay then is easily surmised in; I rather choose the lesser “evil’ so thank god for christianity today.

But then again I’m suprised, as an atheist you shouldn’t concern your things of “truth” you’d just get worned out. And I don’t really like how it turned out to be christians vs atheist. Aren’t atheist also imposing what they believe on to other people. “If you believe in god you’re stupid.”(Well I don’t think you’re the typical atheist)

Questions about god/ existence would just lead you nowhere. I don’t hate christianity because its a religion of kindness and love. Jesus protected the marginalized people at that time, the prostitutes, the tax collectors and the gentiles. He was a revolutionary trying to destroy the upper echelons of society. Who cares if he’s god or not? Who cares if the dalai lama is a holy man? The only important thing is human capacity to help other people and Jesus Christ really showed this and so did billions other people.But the point is the organization born out of it tried to spread his message of love and kindness.(then again Nietszche would see this as the Bad News)

But these religions would need to pass out. A world of atheism would never really float. People NEED something to believe to. Its a double edged sword. Right now the best emerging religion is that of Bahai faith. It accepts all religions as true(wow) and supports world effort for unity;(a staunch suppoter of the U.N). It has some doctrines (gay stuff and shit) but it isn’t really hard on them. They don’t kill you or anything. They just keep to themselves and acknowledge the fact that religion is personal.(Mass gatherings are discouraged. Only on some dates(big dates, founding of religion, death of Ballauah, the Babi).

And If I were to die that way. I wouldn’t curse god if it/he/she were real. I’d be greatful that I had this life.I wouldn’t want a perfect world, this imperfect world is perfect. And I say thank you even if I was condemend to hell.

And God did not create wars or famine, the delusions of man did.

63. benj - November 9, 2006

Hi there. Thanks for reading and writing this comprehensive reply.

You made very good points and I will try to deal with them when I have more time to blog. Thanks again.

64. Steel - November 14, 2006

Can’t help but post a comment.

Agnosticism and religion-bashing are two totally different subjects. It’s fine to express your disbelief in something but if you start bad-mouthing what other people find sacramental then be prepared for the shit that will eventually crawl its way towards you. I catch your drift though. I personally hate how the Quran subliminally commands our clueless Muslim brothers to strap themselves with a thermonuclear device and blow the infidels to smithereens, but I’d rather not talk nor write about it. Not that I’m afraid of mujahideens knocking at my door with pitchforks and torches (or worse, car bombs!) on their hands, I just find it senseless to write about something that I will gain nothing from.

Just my two-cents worth. Carry on.

65. benj - November 15, 2006

Ergo, Im doing a Ratzinger right now. Ive always adored the Sith Lord. hehe


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